We share the same values

I can imagine the two of you do not want to ‘give everything away’ so close to the upcoming event on 8 October, which will be about the ‘changing of the guard’ at the Centre for Sustainability, Tourism and Transport (CSTT) of BUas, but let’s have a look at what preceded. 

‘Reflecting on my inaugural speech in December 2002,’ Paul begins, ‘I realise that many of the points I made back then are still relevant today. It reminds me that there’s still much work to be done! You understand, I am very happy that Nina is here.’ 

First, I want to go back a little further in time, because I imagine not many people know that you – as an avid train user – once participated in the development of the Fokker 50 and 100 aircrafts!? 
‘True, I am an aircraft engineer,’ Paul grins, ‘but actually I wanted to be a biologist. My godfather was a biologist and the first book I read was about determination. I had a particular thing for caterpillars.’  
‘You still do!’ Nina laughs. 
‘Right, if I am on my bike and spot a caterpillar, you’d better not be riding behind me because I’ll stop in my tracks.’ 

From biologist to aircraft engineer. How come? 
‘I lived in Haarlem, which is near Schiphol Airport. Once, my parents decided take me on a plane trip. I was 13 and quite impressed! Later, I would cycle to Schiphol on my own to spot planes. I saw flying as a form of public transport, better than cars, I thought at the time. And of course I wanted to become a pilot! That did not work out; at one of the final tests I was rejected, due to a lack of focus. So, I decided to study biology after all, but that turned out to be a fiasco. Until a friend suggested: you are so crazy about aeroplanes, why not go to the HTS (Institute of Technology) in Haarlem and study aeronautics?’  

And that is how you ended up at Fokker? 
‘One of the last times I flew was the flight to the job interview at Fokker in 1981. I was doing my military service in Germany and was picked up by plane for the interview. Bizarre. I had just started working at Fokker when the acid rain crisis hit. I remember thinking: this can’t be true, can it?! I joined Friends of the Earth Netherlands and ended up in the traffic working group. We were discussing traffic bollards, while the forests were dying! That is where the seed was planted.’ 

You left Fokker quite soon after? 
‘I worked there for four years, then I started focusing entirely on research for the environmental movement. It was clear that limits needed to be set on the use of space, noise pollution, and CO₂ emissions. I started working on a plan, typing it out on my typewriter, and took it to TU Delft (Delft University of Technology). The idea grew and eventually this ‘trend-breaking scenario’ was included in Rail ‘21, an ambitious future plan by the Dutch Railway Company. That’s how ideas get adopted, and that’s how it should work with the professorship as well; the important thing is to get things moving.’ 

What are you most proud of? 
‘I have done a lot, but as I just said, we are not there yet. It obviously takes time. I think I am secretly most proud of that first trend-breaking scenario anyway, because it set something in motion, and by that, I also mean my further career as a researcher. At least for me personally, it has had a huge impact.’ 

‘You can definitely be proud of that!’ Nina agrees. ‘You have made people aware, which is incredibly important. You brought up the right issues. I am very happy with that, and I will certainly continue the professorship in the same way. I see absolutely no reason to change course.’ 

Nina Nesterova studied at Ural State University in Russia and obtained her PhD in International Transport and Logistics in France. She has 25 years of experience and worked at the European Commission, the World Bank, and at TNO in The Hague as a Sustainable Transport and Logistics Research Scientist, among others, and started at BUas in 2018 as the Smart and Sustainable Mobility Team Lead. She has now been working with Paul Peeters on the further development of the professorship for almost two years and will give her inaugural speech on 8 October. 

Like Paul, did you also have a thing for aeroplanes? 
‘As a kid, I wanted to test airplanes,’ Nina confesses. 
‘Seriously!?’ 
‘Yeah, as a first job – I told my mother, who was shocked!’  
‘I can relate to that,’ says Paul. 
‘Nowadays, I do not like flying at all, but I have to – if I want to see my family...’ 
Paul: ‘And I love flying, but I prefer not to!’ 

‘I trained as a Transport Economist,’ Nina continues. ‘I dealt with everything to do with transport, but strangely not tourism. When I started at BUas, that was truly an eye-opener for me, the link with tourism is of course a logical one, but I had never really thought about it in terms of aviation or cruise shipping. My focus was mainly on trans-European transport networks, urban mobility and logistics. I also worked on railway transport, I worked, among other things, on the New Silk Road, a modern railway connection to and from China.’ 

A great example of how things can be done? 
‘Absolutely! It is about choices of nations, it is about the political will to make it work,’ Nina says firmly. ‘I just have not learned how to influence it yet.’ 

‘By using your knowledge to show that it is a superior system,’ Paul encourages her. ‘Technically it can be done in Europe too. The tricky thing is that rail is not as well organised internationally as aviation. A Dutch minister cannot simply decide on reducing the number of flights to and from Schiphol airport. Those international agreements also prevent the implementation of a tax on kerosine. Once, those agreements made sense, now they no longer do; they did result in aviation now being stronger than rail.’ 

So, how to exert influence? 
‘It is funny to see how awareness works,’ Paul says, ‘Greenpeace said in 2017: the train to Berlin should be faster. This had not yet been achieved but the number of passengers had already doubled. 

People did not even know they could take the train to Berlin! So, it is all about the story you tell.’ 

‘But always based on the facts,’ Nina adds, ‘we are researchers, after all. With those facts, we try to influence reducing the negative impacts of air and car traffic. And that is complex. We do not see the air traffic, so it is not there, in people’s perception. Road congestion bothers us, so then it is a problem.’ 

I recently saw – for the first time I must confess – the Flightradar, I was shocked! We really cannot avoid the facts anymore. 
‘And yet a lot of nonsense about it is still being spread,’ says Paul. ‘And yes, I’m still an aircraft engineer, so I feel compelled to speak up when I hear something incorrect in my field. I always voice my thoughts anyway, even if they don’t amuse everyone. It takes a bit of guts to do that.’  

‘And in that, Paul and I are similar,’ Nina laughs, ‘we believe in what we do and both of us say what we mean. We share the same values. We do not focus on our careers, but on social impact. We also do not feel the need to put our names on anything. It is about the content and content-wise I am building on what Paul has done.’ 

‘And Nina is much better at networking than I am. That is necessary; once you have figured something out, you have to make sure it lands!’ (just to stay with the aircraft terminology)  

‘Yet Paul has also helped me on the personal level, not just with research content. He has taught me how to "manage" the professorship, as this goes beyond just content – it’s about internal processes, relationship and structuring the work. I have been dropped in at the deep end of the swimming pool, that is kind of how it felt to me, Paul picked me up and taught me how to swim.’ 

So, you learned a lot from each other. Now, if you had to name one other person who has been important during your journey, who would it be? 
‘Of course, it is always a team effort,’ says Nina, ‘and I am very happy with our CSTT team, we speak the same language there.’  
‘It is a team and yet it is a group with very different people, and that is good,’ says Paul, ‘so you avoid floating in your own bubble.’ 
‘We are different but our values and goals are the same, that makes us a strong team,’ Nina states. ‘And the great thing is that we are increasingly being heard in the organisation. Our advice on the BUas travel policy and the idea of a BUas-wide climate course have all been endorsed by the Executive Board. That way you really feel supported.’ 

But if you have to name one person?  
‘Then I’d say Jorrit. He listens to the people in the organisation and gives everyone a platform,’ Nina says. ‘He supports us in staying critical. And if facts speak against a company, we should still dare to speak out. Above all, let us continue to seek each other out and strengthen each other, we need to move towards each other, and not get stuck in arguments. To my mind, that is when the meaningful from Creating Meaningful Experiences really takes on a deeper meaning.’ 

Paul, who is the helper in your story? 
‘Eke Eijgelaar has always been the mainstay of CSTT as a researcher, since 2008. I owe him a lot of thanks. And Hans Uijterwijk (former president of the board, ed.) dared to hire me!’ (laughs) ‘I am still grateful to him for that. At that time, climate change was not on the agenda at all – globally. There were six people working on it, I knew them all, still do, by the way. Anyway, at my inaugural speech, someone in the audience said, a little too loudly: What on earth have we brought in now?! That is definitely not going to happen to you, Nina!’ 

By Maaike Dukker-'t Hart 

Farewell speech by Paul Peeters and inaugural lecture by Nina Nesterova

Are you curious about what else Paul and Nina have to say? 
Join the Farewell speech by Paul Peeters and inaugural lecture by Nina Nesterova on Tuesday 8 October, from 15.00 to 19.00 hrs, in the Chapel of BUas. 
 
Please make sure to register as soon as possible, because places are limited. 

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